Hi all.
I have an Apple Magic Keyboard, just the basic one, no numpad, no fingerprint/touch sensor. One of the arrow keys is tipped up on a corner, and I'm wondering if it might end up failing soon. So quick question.
I'm looking for a keyboard like the Magic Keyboard, i.e. same size and configuration, that will also report battery status. I have an iClever one with a numpad, specifically the BK10. It doesn't report battery status, and it's too big to fit in the Mac Mini travel case anyway.
Other than those two things, I like it, so I don't know if a different model of iClever would report the battery? I like being able to check the charge in the battery widget so I know what's going on instead of just having it die or tell me it needs to be charged all of a sudden.
So if there's an iClever model that fits the bill, I'd happily go with them. If not, well, something along those lines anyway. Like the Magic Keyboard it's built on a metal framework and all, really light, and so on. SO that's kind of what I'm after. When I say size, I'm mainly thinking width, although I don't need a really thick/high keyboard either. But I'm pretty happy with the space savings I get with the Magic Keyboard.
Comments
Gemini's answer
That tipped arrow key is definitely a warning sign. Once those scissor switches start to lift at a corner, the plastic clips underneath are usually either fatigued or already snapped, which leads to the key popping off entirely.
Regarding your search for an iClever model that reports battery status: unfortunately, iClever (including the popular BK series) generally does not support the standard macOS Bluetooth Battery reporting protocol. Most of their models rely on a physical LED that flashes red when you hit 10% or a "manual check" shortcut (like Fn + Right Alt on the BK05) where a light flashes a certain number of times.
Since you want that seamless "check the widget" experience like the Magic Keyboard, here are the best options that fit your Mac Mini travel case and report battery levels to macOS:
1. Satechi Slim X1 Bluetooth Backlit Keyboard
This is arguably the closest "Magic Keyboard clone" in terms of build and aesthetics.
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Size: It’s nearly identical in footprint to the basic Magic Keyboard (no numpad).
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Battery Reporting: It does report its battery percentage to the macOS Battery widget and the Bluetooth menu.
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Build: It has a solid aluminum enclosure, giving it that premium, weighted feel you like.
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Bonus: It is backlit (which you can turn off to save power) and uses USB-C for charging.
2. Logitech MX Keys Mini (for Mac version)
If you want the most reliable battery reporting and a slightly more "tactile" feel, this is the gold standard.
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Size: Very compact, specifically designed to be portable.
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Battery Reporting: Fully supports macOS battery status. You can see the percentage in the widget or through the "Logi Options+" software (which is quite screen-reader friendly).
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Build: Metal plate construction. It’s very sturdy and won’t flex in a travel bag.
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Note: The keys have slight circular indentations (dishes) which some users find helps with finger centering, though they feel different from the flat iClever/Apple keys.
3. Macally Small Bluetooth Keyboard (BTMINIKEY / MLUXKEYA)
Macally is a budget-friendly alternative that specifically targets Mac users.
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Size: Ultra-slim, no numpad.
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Battery Reporting: Their newer "LUX" series (metal frame) generally supports macOS battery reporting.
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Build: Unibody aluminum frame. It’s very light and fits easily into slim cases.
What's wrong with an Apple Magic Keyboard?
I have several. I like them all, although I'm faster on mechanical keyboards. Still, the Magic Keyboard with touch sensor and number pad really rocks, if you don't mind the width. Personally, I think it's worth it. smile.
I definitely prefer mechanical keyboards myself
I definitely prefer the mechanical keyboards as they give me more tactile feedback, but the keys are actually being crushed and they seem to have a bit more key travel. But that’s why it is difficult because it’s hard to tell what kind of keyboard you’re like if you can’t physically get your hands on one. I’ve had those kind of membrane keyboards and I don’t have the soft detect of the keys, but I feel like a lot of that is personal preference. I hope you find the keyboard that works for you.
Re: Apple Keyboards.
Nothing's wrong with them, as such. I like the way they type just fine. But one of the arrow keys is probably coming off. Seriously, it's right there in the initial post.
I've had it for like seven months. It's the only keyboard this has ever happened to, and I've owned a fair number over the years, including on laptops. So if it fails, I'll be getting something else. I feel like a keyboard should probably last longer than a year, you know?
Essentially, if you push on the top right corner of the right arrow key, the bottom left corner tilts up off the keyboard, fairly significantly. This is happening with no other key. As AI pointed out, I'm guessing whatever holds it to the board is having some sort of issue.
I also think that arrow sometimes gets stuck a bit and messes with things. On the one hand, this can happen, stuff breaks. OTOH, like I said, this has happened with no other keyboard brand. So my conclusion is, get something that's sturdier, when this keyboard finally fails. Maybe I'll be lucky, and it will last for the next three years, who knows?
Your keyboard is very likely still under warranty
Would you like a free replacement? contact the seller to make a warranty claim and tel them you want a replacement. Tell them there is an implied warranty of merchantability that is still in effect and that this implied warranty entitles you to choose replacement, money back or repair. Tell them you choose replacement.
Have fun!
You want me to deal with Amazon?
Funny guy!
Nah. If it's going to break this easily, I'll just get something better whenever it finally breaks. I mean if the iClever had reported battery status, I would have just gotten another version of that, cheaper and at least an equally good keyboard.
I don't need the number pad and since I didn't get a Magic Keyboard with a touch thingy, I'm not really losing anything by picking another board. Plus, I can probably get multi-device support, something the AMK doesn't do.
I know some folks swear by the number pad, but since I'm still kicking around whether to upgrade to a Macbook or a better Mac Mini, I started by not using the iClever's numpad. I seem to be doing OK without one, so it just saves space to not have one. Plus if I stick with the Mini, a keyboard without a numpad will fit in the travel cases for those, as long as I'm careful to get the right size, of course.
Logitech for the win.
For what it's worth to you, I've always been a fan of Logitech keyboards. From my early days of computer use, we are talking mid to late 90s here, to present day. I've always found Logitech keyboards to be pretty long lasting. I've always found the typing experience to be suitable for my needs as well. Of course, I tend to take exceptional care of my hardware. I currently use a Logitech Bluetooth keyboard with my Xbox. Don't ask me what model, because I have no idea at this point. I will say that it has a little USB Adapter that is required in order for the keyboard to connect to various Bluetooth equipment. That may or may not be of interest to you, but I figured I would share that for transparency sake. Nevertheless, I would definitely recommend a Logitech branded keyboard.
Oh, one more thing. I've had my current Logitech keyboard for several years now. 😀
HTH.
Edit: I forgot to mention my keyboard is a legacy keyboard, which simply means it has a built-in numeric keypad.
Keyboards, also why I do not trust AI.
I do like Logitech yeah. I take good care of my hardware too,, the AMK has been in the house on my desk, except for traveling for maybe a week, and it was doing that in a case which was also inside of a padded laptop bag.
Now let's get to the Gemini stuff, even though I will say it probably did give good recommendations. I'm assuming the AI result from Google is, if not Gemini, at least some AI product of Google. For fun, I typed in: "does any iClever Bluetooth keyboard support Mac battery widget". Behold, the AI result, right at the top of the page.
Yes, certain iClever Bluetooth keyboards , such as the iClever BK04 , support battery level monitoring on macOS ...
It then goes on to detail several that use their own indicators, including the BK10, which I'm typing on now because apparently that arrow key wanted to die right the hell now. I guess it didn't like being talked about.
So first, which AI is wrong? Second, assuming this one is right, I have exactly one model that it claims supports it, but there are apparently others. So if that one has a numpad, that's not what I'm after.
So unless I go with Logitech, which I know is a decent brand, I'm pretty much back at square one. iClever would be fine, I like this keyboard, it's just too big and has a numpad which I don't use, plus the Logitech IIRC is a plastic body. Metal would be nicer, plus at least the iClever BK10 was much cheaper than the recommended Logitech, which would also be nice.
keyboards
I was actually pretty impressed with the AI recommendations. I have a Logitech MX Mini. The typing feel and connectivity are excellent and it's a very quiet board. One thing I'm not crazy about is that it has a base which sticks down from the bottom at the back. Perhaps, I got the wrong MX Mini version, but I find that the function keys are set up for Windows and don't give me as many options on IOS. Due to those gripes, I've now obtained a Nuphy Node75 with blush silent switches. The typing experience is nearly identical to the Air75 V3 which I especially treasure. Those two keyboards are the best I've ever found after a quest spanning over a decade and at least twenty keyboards.
I think Protoarc does a better job with their folding keyboards. iClever moved too many keys on the board i tried from them in order to make the folds work. Protoarc managed to have a fold which needed far less rearranging. I have the XK04 which is a 65% keyboard which can fit in a larger pocket. I don't think any of the Protoarc keyboards report their battery status. Keychron and Nuphy keyboards do.
Best of luck with your keyboard quest. I know how daunting the pursuit of perfection can be.
Re: Battery reporting
so I kind of, sort of, have a workaround for you, if you're going to use this keyboard on an iPhone, an iPad, or a Mac computer. Just have a battery widget up and running, as it will show the battery percentage of whatever Bluetooth device you currently have connected and active. Not exactly what you're asking for, but better than nothing, no?
I have a battery widget.
On the Mac, the battery widget is on the desktop. The iClever BK10 does not show up in the battery widget. That's the whole point.
Re: Keyboards
The BK10 isn't one of their folding keyboards. I'm not super picky about typing feel, and since I started using a laptop quite awhile back, I'm fine with those kinds of keys. That's more or less what both the iClever and Magic Keyboard use, although the iClever mechanism feels a bit better, sturdier.
I did pick up a Protoark, based on the recommendation on your book as it happens, but that's probably too small to use as a daily keyboard. I also have that other Logitech one people love with the rounded keys, the K380? I could try that, if I can find it. I think of that as a phone keyboard though.
Like I said, I think in this case the AI probably gave decent recommendations, yeah. But it says no iClever supports Mac battery reporting. Google's AI answer says some do, although the BK04 doesn't show up for me. So now, does the Logitech? The Seteki? I have no idea whether or not to trust the AI.
Plus if either have the same key attachment mechanism as the AMK, I suspect the same kind of issue might come up. This is why I was hoping for some personal experiences. I don't know what the different mechanisms are, but while the iClever BK10 and AMK feel fairly similar in terms of typing, the iClever keys feel more embedded in the keyboard, while the AMK keys feel like they're raised up, kind of floating over it.
The AMK keys can kind of rock back and forth a bit, while the iClever keys don't feel like that. But both feel pretty much like a laptop typing experience. So a little cllicky, not a ton of travel, that kind of thing. I'm open to other kinds of keyboards, I'm just trying to describe the experience of what I'm currently using. IIRC from what I can tell both do indeed use scissor switches. But they're obviously different, somehow or other.
Logitech
Have a slim folio for my iPad. It tells me the percentage of the keyboard battery. Long live meows.
There isn’t any way to get any kind of a Bluetooth case for an i
I think I would get a Bluetooth keyboard for an iPhone if I had a way to have that double as my case like you can for iPads. I’m not even sure if this exists. That’s like one of the reasons I’ve never gotten myself a keyboard it would just be one more device for me to have to carry around all the time and keep charged. So I don’t feel like bothering that or another device that I have to keep finding batteries for which I also don’t feel like dealing with so yeah that was my question on this topic thanks to anybody who can answer that
Questions about Logictech?
I bought a couple of Logictech keyboards to help with carpel tunnel problems, loved their action and their feel, but I couldn't figure out a way to work around a completely needless Logictech design flaw. Neither of the Logictech keyboards I bought have all three of the command, option and control keys on both sides of the space bar! To the right of the space bar there are only two of the three keys!
So, is there some way to reassign a key to be the missing key over there? Or does Logictech make Mac keyboards that have all three of those keys on both ends of the space bar? Are all the Logictech keyboards mention on this post missing that key?
Logitech
My have command, action, funtion and control on the left of the space bar. Long live cats.
Re: two keys on the right.
I mean, that's what the Apple Magic Keyboard has. I think that's literally the way the Mac keyboard is set up. You don't get a control key on the right. That's not to say you can't find keyboards that give you that for Apple's stuff, though I've never seen one. It's just that, if you're going for an Apple/Mac style keyboard, they don't have all three keys on the right.
Re: iPhone case with keyboard:
There's Clicks. I think they've got a new thing out that's a keyboard that attaches magnetically, but they also have a keyboard case. I don't know how useful it would be because it's obviously not a full-sized keyboard, not even a small one like a Mac keyboard without the numpad. But yes, at least one exists.
@Khomus
Actually, no. The Apple Magic keyboard has a control key, an option key, and a command key to the left of the space bar, and a command key, option key and control key on the right of the space bar. Three to each side. No missing keys.
The Logitech keyboards I purchased, however only have two of those keys of the right.
Are all Logitech keyboards like that? Are any of the Logitech ergonomic keyboards three keys on each side of the space bar? Is there some trick to getting some key on the right side reassigned to act as the missing key?
Thanks for letting me know about the keyboard case
That’s good to know that that exists. I may have to look into that. I’m not sure when I would do it cause I don’t really have too much money for it right now, but I’m gonna have to look into that.
Bruce Harrell
The slim folio for my iPad 9 has 4 keys on the left of the space bar. Long live cats.
I mean, I was literally using an Apple Magic Keyboard last night
Specifically, this one.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DL6LV7Q6
On the left, it has fn/the globe key, control, option, command. On the right, it has command, option, and then the arrow keys. Maybe the ones with a numpad are different, I haven't used one of those in maybe two or three years. Actually, probably longer since when I wiped the old iMac and put Windows on it I used a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard.
Holger and Khomus
I am happy for you both! Unfortunately, what you are talking about is not what I'm talking about, and I can't help but wonder why you aren't answering my questions. Perhaps you simply don't know?
It's totally OK with me if you don't know. I don't know either, which is one reason why I'm asking.
Maybe somebody else can tell me? What do you do to cope with that missing key? There are quite a few right hand commands that use that missing key, VO, For example.
@Bruce Harrell
I end up using two hands and stretched fingers for the command on the Logitech. That's on iOS. I don't like it, but that's the only way.
* Had to think about how to describe this. Sometimes I can manage to reach a key on the left with a finger and also hold the control and other modifiers all with the left hand. Otherwise I have to hold control et al with the left and press the keys on the left with my right hand, like if I were one-handed-typing. It makes things slow. You might try out activating sticky keys somewhere under Settings > Accessibility > Keyboards > Sticky Keys, hope that's the right path, if it is a major issue. That is also a slow process too.
Re: I have a battery widget.
Weird that the iClever BK10 doesn't show up on the battery widget. Admittedly I don't use a keyboard with my iPhone, but any Bluetooth device I have connected to it thus far has always shown up on the iOS battery widget. Oh well, luck to you in finding a compatible keyboard.
For those of you with a keyboard that has the FN/globe key, control key, option key, and command key, all to left of the space bar, but only a couple of keys to the right, that is how they are laid out on the MacBook. Just FYI for anyone interested. 🙂
This is for a Mac, caps lock.
I should check and see if the iClever's battery status shows up on the phone, it might. But this is for a mac.
Why are you people still using control and option? Caps lock is the secret. Also moving your hands, e.g. to hit cmd-f5, my left thumb is on command and my right hand moves up off of the home row to hit f5.
I can't honestly think of a thing I'd need a right control key for. If somebody gives me an example of a VO command like that, I'll try it and let you know what I do for it.
The only reason I have the right option key enabled to control stuff is to mute VO for some stuff in Logic, as recommended by The Blind Logic Pro, (formerly Logic Band), because it can be useful. Other than that, and disabling ctrl-opt as a VO modifier, again for more keyboard shortcuts in Logic, it's default commands all the way for me.
What magic am I missing? I mean other than the numpad, I already know about that and have abandoned it for space considerations. Seriously, tell me some awesome keyboard stuff that you do that I don't. I can always stand to learn something, as dumb as I am. You never know when new stuff will come in handy, or old stuff you were ignoring, for that matter!
Alternatives for 3 keys on the right
Here are the best options that either provide this layout or allow you to create it:
1. Keychron QMK/VIA Series (Highly Recommended)
Keychron's "Pro" and "Max" lines (like the Keychron K3 Pro or Q1 Max) are your best bet.
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The Layout: Out of the box, they usually have Command and Option to the right.
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The Solution: Because these are QMK/VIA compatible, you can use a web-based tool to "remap" the keys. You can physically move the keycaps and tell the keyboard that the third key (usually Fn) should act as Control.
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Accessibility: Once you remap the key, the change is saved onto the keyboard's hardware. It will work exactly the same way whether you plug it into your iPhone or your PC.
2. Logitech MX Keys "S" for Mac
While the standard MX Keys has a "dual" layout, the MX Keys S for Mac is specifically designed for Apple users.
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Right Side Keys: It typically features Command and Option to the right of the spacebar.
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The Catch: The third key is usually the Fn key. However, using the Logi Options+ software on your computer, you can sometimes customize these modifier behaviors.
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Note: Customizations made in Logitech software often don't "carry over" when you switch to an iPhone; they only work while the software is running on a PC or Mac.
3. Programmable Mechanical Keyboards
If you want a tactile experience that works well with screen readers, look for "fully programmable" Bluetooth keyboards.
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Brands: Epomaker, NuPhy, and Glorious.
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Why they work: Like Keychron, many of these allow you to remap the bottom row. You can set the three keys to the right of the spacebar to be Command, Option, and Control in any order you prefer.
Important Consideration for VoiceOver
When using a Bluetooth keyboard with an iPhone, VoiceOver often relies on the "VO Keys" (Control + Option). On a standard Apple Magic Keyboard, these are only on the left.
If you find a keyboard where you can remap the right-side keys:
1.
Map them as: [Space] [Command] [Option] [Control].
2.
This allows you to perform "Read All" (VO + A) or navigate the "Rotor" using only your right hand.
@Khomus
I don't have a Mac, only an iPhone. On iOS, unless they just fixed it in the last few updates, there is a long, long standing bug that the caps key as VO modifier still activates the caps, so you have to remember to double-press it every time you use it to turn caps off.
It even does this if you plug a wired keyboard into the phone, so it is a software issue with VO and iOS.
I'll have to hook the keyboard up to the phone.
Edited: I'll have to experiment. I haven't used the keyboard with the phone in a while, but I don't remember that being an issue for me. I'm pretty sure this was on 18.X, I can't run 26, my phone's too old.
I just tested by connecting to the phone and writing an email to myself. I didn't get extra caps, or all caps. To test, I used VO-left/right to move through the fields, wrote lines, and then used VO-left/right to move through some fields again, then wrote more once I was back in the email body.
This is on iOS 18.7.5 with an iClever BK10 keyboard. The weirdest thing was trying some of the standard Mac commands that don't work on the phone, e.g. cmd-w works to close an email and ask if you want to save as a draft, but cmd-q doesn't close Mail.
Do you have definite steps to reproduce for you, or does this happen in something like Mail? I'd love to do a bit more testing, if this happens somewhere specifically for you. I can totally imagine it working fine in Mail but not somewhere else.
All the iPhones can run iOS 26
All the iPhones now can run iOS 26. Apple didn’t drop any support for any of the phones.
@Khomus
I activated help with the screen gesture. Then I pressed caps once. It announced that caps were on. All the letter keys I pressed were then capped. I pressed caps again to turn it off. Then I held it down and pressed a key to be sure it was using caps as VO, and it was, but it also started capping everything until I pressed caps again. In a web page, if I use caps as VO with "h," it starts moving backwards through headings every other time I press caps.
Every time I press it, it either turns caps on or off in addition to acting as the VO modifier. It has done this from the very beginning when they added that feature. I seem to remember trying to find a way to disable the caps key in settings, but I think that disabled VO also, or something like that.
Quick Nav takes care of a lot of the need for using the VO, on iOS but sometimes it comes up, and I don't use the keyboard enough to get in the habit of double pressing caps every time I use it.
keyboard cases
Keep in mind that if you go the route of getting a keyboard case, it likely won't fit the next iPhone you upgrade to. The Clicks Powwer Keys might actually solve that problem since it isn't a case and can attach via MagSafe to your iPhone. You can charge both it and your iPhone using the USB C port on the device. Everything I've read about it suggests that it should be potentially the best longer-term solution to people wanting a keyboard and power bank in one device that attaches to your iPhone.
There are a couple of potential drawbacks though. Chiefly, they relate to the small size of this device. The keyboard is said to be a 40% size keyboard. That's exceedingly small. They attempted to have all of the most important keys immediately present and then have everything else available through key combinations. That's going to be a substantial learning curve to master efficient typing on. I find it hard to imagine this being very comfortable to use. Good in a pinch, but not for extended typing.
As to power, you're basically getting a 2500 MAH battery which can be used to charge your iPhone and for powering the keyboard. That probably won't even charge your iPhone halfway. MagSafe charging isn't the fastest or most efficient way to do the job even if it is very convenient. Nice to have in an everyday emergency where you need a few more hours of charge to finish your day. Not what you want during substantial periods of time away from available power.
For the small sacrifice of having to cary separate devices, you can have a far more comfortable keyboard and substantially larger power bank. Everything could fit in a small shoulder bag weighing no more than ten pounds. There's such a thing as too small.
Re: iPhones, caps lock.
I own an iPhone XR. It will not run 26.
Oldbear, I'll try playing around with some of that stuff and see what happens. Just out of curiosity, what keyboard(s) are you using?
@people
Old Bear, thanks, but darn! Why did they do that? I'm sure I'll never know.
To Brian, yes. I thought about mentioning that, too, but I didn't want to distract anybody from my questions. The fn key can definitely be helpful, though. smile
So, does Apple offer a mechanical keyboard, or if not, do they have plans for one?
@Khomus
Hi Khomus. I already gave you a few right handed vo commands, but in case I'm having a senior moment (which is known to happen), I'll offer some again.
right handed vo command. Assume for each of the following commands, the letter is combined with the right handed vo.
a
continuous read
d
open dock
f
VoiceOver find command
q
single key quick nav toggle
s
read sentence
t
read text attributes
v
open verbosity rotor
w
read word
ww
spell word
www
spell word phonetically
x
open activity chooser
z
repeat last phrase
tab
ignore next key press
And then there are all the right handed vo function key commands. You are aware of. them? Vo f1? vo f2 f2, to name a couple?
As you know, we also have a variety of commands with the right handed vo plus the shift key, like vo shift c (copy last phrase)? Or, vo shift d? go to desktop? vo fhift f? Open find command menu? vo shift w? Read content of window?
And then there are the vo plus command key commands, and the vo plus command key plus shift commands?
Anyway, Khomus, there are lots more than just those I've listed. Smile. You might want to check them out to refresh your memory.
Joy!
bruce
Bruce Harrell
Is the VO key is the next to the space bar? It never works for me any of the commands you suggest. Only thing that works, is command hh to go to the home in my iPad 9. Long live meows.
@Holger
Hi Holger, To the right of my space bar are the following keys, from left to right:
command key
option key
control key
The "VO" key isn't a key; it is a combination of two keys pressed together -- the control key and the option key. Pressing these two keys at the same time is what we call the VO command. So, you might want to try pressing VO plus k to turn on your keyboard help function. with it turned on, you can press any keys to find out what they are. You can also press vo plus any keys to find out what the VoiceOver commands are, or you can go to the list of commands which you already know about, e.g., VO plus h.
I hope this helps. Smile.
Hmm. rubbing chin in thought. Am I supposed to say something here about my cat?
Bruce Harrell
I use the keys left of the space bar. Yes, suppose to say Long live cats. Cats want to be gods again. The Egyptians did it and since them, cats want to have it back. Thanks. I did tried it but it is not consistent. Go figure.
Re: right handed commands.
You probably did and I spaced it or missed the comment.
Yeah, I just do all of those with caps lock. For instance, for VO-shift-c, my hand slides slightly to the left. Now ring finger is on caps lock and pinky on shift. Then index moves down to 'c'. Similarly, VO-a, which I use all the time, you can hit with pinky on caps and ring on 'a', or as I probably do more often, again slide your hand over and hit it with other fingers, e.g. ring on caps and middle on 'a'. Vo-f is just sliding the pinky over to caps and hitting 'f' with the index which is already on it, and so on.
As for the function stuff, I think I covered that already. I'm just doing it backwards. For things like VO-f1 and F2, anchor on caps and extend your left hand. For the rest, caps, and move your right hand up to the function row. If you've got VO keys on the right you'll be moving your left hand at some point anyway, so same basic idea.
This is why I don't understand the "you have to hit twelve million keys for everything on the Mac" complaints. Yeah, if you're using ctrl-opt, that gets to be a lot of keys. But for most of the common stuff you use, it's like three keys max. Well, for me anyway. I'm telling you. Caps lock as modifier is the secret.
I think the thing that got me used to using caps lock was actually setting it up for NVDA when I was using a Windows laptop, it had a numpad but it was often easier to just use caps lock. Plus messing around with a Bluetooth keyboard on iPhone, I also just started using caps lock there, because I don't think many keyboards have all three keys on the right.
People would hate my layout though. In addition to the changes I already mentioned because of Logic Pro, I disabled quick nav with the arrows. If I want it, I don't think I've used it since disabling it, I hit VO-shift-q. More often I'm just using VO-q to toggle single-key navigation on and off, so I can use things like 'h' to move by headings in websites.
I did that because I found quick nav to be pretty hit or miss, on both Mac OS and iOS. It's supposed to just let you type, e.g. if you hit a form field on a website, but I found myself having to toggle it off sometimes. So now I just do VO-arrows. That works pretty much everywhere, all the time. I don't have to remember to toggle things on and off anymore, well except for single key, every once in a great while that will trip me up if I forget to toggle it.
Plus it would randomly toggle if I hit arrows too fast in some games. I just found it more annoying to have to remember to do the toggle if I wanted arrow keys. So I just use VO-arrows, and like I said, no problem, because it works everywhere. I just look at it as the Mac way of doing things, it's obviously different from Windows, well except for Narrator, it's sort of like that too. I don't have a lot of the consistency issues and confusion some people talk about, because I'm just doing the same thing everywhere now.
What's right, anyway?
Holger, cats are still gods. They never stopped being gods. Ask any cat.
Khomus, I have the same problem with quicknav and only rarely use it. On the other hand, the numpad commander is extremely useful. As for the missing control key on the right, Justin Phillips gave me a way to reassign the fn key on the right and use it instead of the right handed VO keys. I intend to give that a try. Meanwhile, I agree about the capslock but only with the setting that also keeps the vo keys active. Capslock is great, but to have to juggle hands to turn a right handed vo command into left is just too time consuming. Keeping our hands on or close to the home key row is necessary for speed; that's what I learned when I took typing in high school, and that was the best class I ever took. Yes, contortion works, but something more straightforward is my style, which is why I was hoping to find an ergonomic Logitech keyboard that has all 3 keys to the right of the space bar. Sigh. I will just have to content myself with figuring out what Justin was explaining.
Slim folio
Long live cats. I think my is the command, action and function and control but I am not sure anymore.
@Khomus
I've used an older Zagg, an older Logitech and a wired Windows keyboard on the last two iPhones I've used. And yes, the caps as VO is wonderful, if it works right. I think the people who came up with the original plan for Voice Over commands were into Emacspeak or something, with all the love of complicated key combinations. Same with the original version of that Chrome screen reader, the more key presses to do one action, the better.
Re: Remapping keys.
I can't test this, because I don't have a right function key, but try this.
1. Go into System Settings.
2. Pick keyboard.
3. In the scroll area, pick keyboard shortcuts.
4. In the sidebar, pick modifier keys.
5. If right FN shows up, you just activate the menu and pick control.
FN shows up for me, but I only have the one. This might not work, it doesn't seem to distinguish between right or left option for instance, it just has option. If that doesn't work there are third party programs to do it, but I don't use any.
Logitech MX keys Mini for Mac.
So I bought one. I'm debating whether to return it. Here's why. First, if you install the software, then every time you use caps lock for the VO modifier, it says "caps lock, image, app". I don't know what it's popping up but it's super annoying. So here's a question to hit the second thing.
Is there a way to disable keys without messing with their software? I disabled the volume up key, which is just past F12. Uninstalling the software to get rid of that message happening all the time brought it back. Also I don't need the "do not disturb" toggle, top right key on the keyboard. Nothing gets announced when you hit it and I can see myself bumping it regularly and losing all sorts of stuff.
I haven't had my wife check to see if the backlighting is on, but there's another feature I'll never use. I had my wife disable it in the software before uninstalling it, BTW the AI lied its ass off, it is *not* screen reader friendly, but I have no idea if it stuck around or not. I'd guess not.
I like it as a keyboard. I just don't need the extra features. All of the Nuphy boards I've seen are too big for the Mac Mini travel case. The Satechi one, also AI recommended, should fit, but I don't know much about the keyboard or the brand. If I can keep the Logitech I will, but if I can't do anything about the extra keys without their software then I'll probably return it. They're just going to mess things up for me.