Canes

I got a reply back from Graham from Aspire who are selling the SensorBall. It does sound like the weight might be a problem for me so I'm probably going to stick with the rotary tips for now. But I thought I would paste some of his response below if anyone is interested in this sort of thing. I'd also still be interested if anyone else has tried either this or the PathFinder.

The Sensaball is larger than the 50 mm roller tip we supply for our canes and does definitely make the cane heavier, I am using one with mine.  The amount of feedback it gives though is very impressive as it gives 360 degree coverage and unlike the pathfinder which is a  similar tip which doesn't fit our canes anyway it doesn’t have grooves in it for things to get stuck in .

However, I used to be renowned for slamming the tip into the bottom of doors, when navigating hallways, such as apartment buildings, hotels, dormitories, etc. I have since switched to something a little lighter and a little less noisemaking; the ceramic tip. 😅

I think ceramic tips are probably noisier than roller balls.

It ight be my technique that's at fault but my wrists really struggle to cope with a roller ball if I'm out for any amount of time with one.

The big rotary tip is my favourite as it has the balance of being reasonably light but also can go over surfaces probably better than anything else I've tried.

The ceramic is probably second for me because it makes the cane so light, although that is slightly countered by the need to use two point most of the time. It seems to also be quite resilient - I've used mine a lot and it is still working fine. I suppose constant touch probably puts more pressure on a tip so maybe that is partly responsible.

I've heard it said that the heavier tips, such as the roller ball tip, can actually cause long time users to get carpal tunnel. I cannot say whether or not that's true, but it is the word on the street. As for the ceramic tip, I like this tip because it's kind of a universal tip, meaning that you can do constant contact, or point to point touch. And yes, slamming a ceramic tip into the bottom of a door can be quite loud indeed. Not that I would know anything about this. 😇

OK, this is one of those questions that's going to make me look stupid, but I'm used to that so let's go.

A cane's handle is typically rounded with a flat surface.

Can I ask - and bearing in mind this is a family forum - what do you use the flat bit for? I've always placed my thumb there with my palm wrapping around the curved bit. However, the WeWalk manual tells you to place the flat bit in your palm, and then your thumb rests on the controls.

So, is this how you are supposed to grip the handle? It feels odd to have the flat bit in what is naturally slightly curved, but maybe it makes sense to someone. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all this time.

Obviously getting to the heart of the really important questions here...

On a normal cane the flat bit is there as well and I've always placed my thumb on that part. So, instinctively I would probably do the same even if the cane had buttons etc. So I don't think it is odd.

When holding my cane, the top of the handle rests in my palm and the flat part of the handle faces up. I rest my index finger on the flat part of the handle, and my thumb and other fingers curve around the underside of the handle.

That type of handle is called a "golf grip", because it's basically what you would find on golf clubs. Like Michael says above, I rest my index finger on the flat surface, and wrap the rest of my fingers and thumb around the rounded portion of the grip. My index finger on the flat surface gives me just a tiny little extra bit of tactile sensation while navigating with my cane.
Think of it like this, I'm holding my cane, with my index finger extended, and the cane becomes an extension of my index finger.

HTH.

OK I never thought to try that - I will hopefully remember to give it a go later on today.

I fleetingly played golf in my youth until I realised I didn't have the patience for it, and I was taught the grip, but it's all fallen out of the brain now.

Ok so I was wrong. I place my index finger on the flat bit. When I wrote above I wasn't using it obviously and for some reason thought I used my thumb lol. Now I've used it again it isn't. Strange how your mind play tricks.

When I was first learning how to use a cane, it was an aluminum AmbuTech came with a marshmallow tip. personally, I hate those tips. I understand those work well for some, not for me though sadly. Anyways, when I was being told how to hold the grip, I remember my instructor telling me, think of the cane as your pointer finger, when you're tapping on the ground, you are tapping the surface with your finger tip. Even canes that don't have a golf grip handle, I still tend to hold like this, index finger extended, finger tip running along the length of the handle. It just feels odd to hold my cane any other way for me. 🤷

Brian, exactly finger down the length. I wonder if anyone actually just grips the handle like a closed fist without extending the finger. Wouldn't feel right as you say to do it like that.

Oh, I am sure it has happened, a time or 2 in someone's introduction to Kane travel, where they held the cane the wrong way, or just held it different from the way their instructor preferred them to hold it.
Who knows? 🤷

I almost got a little agreement but it seems we have once again boiled it down to mr grieves being an idiot.

I suspect I was told how to hold the cane but I don't remember my training very well. I remember the first time being in a shopping mall and being given the cane and thinking "oh crap, I'm a blind man" and that was quite a shock to the system. Then a few lessons later, covid hit and it wasn't for a good year or so that I really started to use it and by that point I couldn't remember the basics.

Annoyingly it's been a bit of a storm today so I've not got out with my cane, but when I do next I will see if I can figure out what you guys are on about and how comfortable it is. I always wondered if one reason my wrists get so tired is that my technique might be wrong and maybe this might explain some of that.

This is super easy to do with an NFB cane or the newer D-canes. If you haven't seen one of the latter, they are similar to the NFB cane, but super flexible.
Supposedly this is to reduce the chances of the handle catching you in the gut should the tip get stuck in a sidewalk crack, etc, but I personally am not a fan. I prefer my stiff aluminum AmbuTech canes.

I recently spent the briefest of moments holding a No-Jab cane and it is not for me. For the unfamiliar, the No-Jab cane tries to solve the problem of the cane going into your stomach when it encounters a crack or barrier with what appears to be a spring system. The top section can slide down on the second section upon impact, and then spring back up right away when pressure is lifted. For me I would worry about loss of tactile feedback--if I run into something, I need to know it's there.

OldBear,

What kind of telescopic cane do you have? I have a friend who has an interesting telescopic cane. I'm not sure where she got hers, but not only is it telescopic, but each section locks into place, so she never has to worry about it collapsing on her while it's in use. It also has a very interesting tip, think marshmallow tip meats metal.

A few months ago, I bought a cane with a wooden handle & a marshmellow tip.
The one I have is 5 sections, but you can get whatever length you need.
I ordered directly through Ambutech, who is Canadian-based & I’m very happy with it.

Yeah, I like canes with a little weight to them. I have severe neuropathy in my fingertips, and wimpy canes like the NFB cane do next to nothing for me.
Fun fact, NFB canes plus an empty parking lot equals Brian walking in an endless circle. 😣

I've got to say, I don't really get this. If I put my index finger along the flat bit, and that's pointing up, then it feels like it is putting a lot of pressure on that finger.

I really should see if I can get some more O&M training.

Isn't it great we have options? I'd not heard of the no-jab cane, thanks for describing it. That sounds too jiggly and hard to tell how substantial of an object or just a bump I'd run into for my taste.
I also like carbon fiber telescopic canes. They are light and can be compact for storage. Great for vehicles, getting it out of the way in a office setting. Both to help it not collapse and for no jabbing, I prefer the pencil grip, where the cane is held like a pencil and is more vertical. I also feel I have more control of the cane, and I can get it out of more problems such as people stepping on it than the golf grip. When I was originally taught the cane, I was taught both grips and my instructor said use pencil indoors and golf grip outdoors where you have more room and are moving faster. I still like this advice. I use pencil probably 80% of the time, but on a long fast walk the golf grip is less taxing on the hand.
Also for what it is worth, I favor different canes for different jobs. I described the telescoping cane ideal. If it is a long walking day I will go with a stiff one piece carbon fiber cane. Or if it is an excursion like a family day of going to the park, I will go with a folding carbon fiber cane, so it is sturdier than telescopic and I can also get it small enough to manage in tight spaces. The folding carbon fiber is the heaviest of my canes and doesn't get as small as the telescopic, so I don't like it as well. It has its job though. And to take jobs to the extreme, when I was a kid growing up on a farm I adapted a cattle prod (non electric fiberglass one) for a cane. It was strong enough to not break in awkward positions and could double to chase the livestock when it was time to do that. It was heavy though!
Well I ended up with more to say on this than I intended. Sorry everyone.

I will sometimes use the pencil grip if and when I am doing sighted guide with someone, mainly to have less likely of a chance of tripping the person guiding me. Otherwise its the tap tap or more often than not, the constant contact method.

@Mr. Grieves,
I get what you are saying, but the idea is not putting a lot of pressure on your index finger, but rather have said finger in a relaxed state, while touching the flat part of the golf grip.

HTH.

What I mean by pointing up is which bit of the handle is pointing up. My technique may be bad, but none of my fingers are sticking up vertically in the air.

It sounds like there are some differences in technique, as to whether the flat bit does point up or to the side. It is a little more comfortable if it is to the side and my index finger goes along it, but still I can't quite get my head around what you lot are telling me, and I think I am just getting more confused the more you try to explain. Not your fault, I am just completely incapable of translating the words into fingers.

But on the positive side, at least it encouraged me to finally email my O&M trainer and ask for a refresher after threatening to do it for years. I am wondering if I have just been holding the thing wrong all this time which is why my wrists struggle so much, but I think I need someone to just show me physically rather than with words.

But good effort all the same, and it would probably have worked if I just had an extra brain cell or two, so thanks for trying.

Oh almost forgot, and this is pretty much entirely an irrelevant tangent. I ordered a couple of new tips for the cane whose name no one can pronounce or spell (Swarofski but not that). I got home today from a walk, and my wife and I walked in the house. I mentioned I had had a ring alert when we were out, but she denied its existence as she hadn't had one. Anyway I had a look - no parcel or anything. Mrs grieves had a look, nothing, so she watched the video and saw some guy putting something through the letter box. So she had another look and found a little note that had been missed and read it - "IN BIN" it said. And yes, the delivery man had just thrown it into the recycle bin and it was lying alongside a week's worth of rubbish. If I had been living on my own that's where it would have stayed until the bin was collected, and that was nearly the case anyway.

I should say that this was also covered in tape saying "Articles for the blind" on it.

This reminds me from the days when I could see. I got an Amazon delivery and it included a photo showing where the parcel was. I opened it and he had literally taken a photo of the inside of the bin - I could just see the dark blue plastic sides, some rubbish in there and there was my parcel.

At any rate, I mention this just to say that I may be thick but at least I have some competition in this regard.

Ha! Sounds like they are confusing the bin with a lock box? Need a big old sign on there: not a lock box! (Of course, they'd ignore it.)

I tend to hold my AmbuTech cane with the flat side facing upwards, like toward the sky, or ceiling, if that helps. With my index finger resting along the surface. Although, I have found that sometimes holding the cane with the flat side facing the right, and my index finger still resting along the side that way(like the handshake method OldBear describes) also seems to work for me as well. Right side, because I am right handed by the way.

Mr. Grieves,

I know you said being shown physically would work better for you than it being described audibly, or I guess textually in the case of these forums, but I will attempt to describe below. Hopefully this will help explain things.
1. We will start out with you holding your cane like a sword. Simply wrap your fist around the grip, flat part can be pointing to the sky, or pointing to whichever side you are dominant, that is to say left for left-handed or right for right-handed.
2. Now that you've got your sword in hand, gently lower the tip of your sword to the ground, while maintaining your grip. Make sure you relax your wrist, if you try to keep your wrist stiff, you're going to hate life.
3. Now you should be holding your cane like a golf club basically, tipped to the ground, firm grip on the handle. Now we acknowledge the flat portion of the grip. With the flat portion of the grip either facing toward the sky, or toward the left or right side based on you being left or right handed, maintain your grip, but very carefully uncurl your index finger so that you are pointing while still maintaining grip on the handle. Now Casually slide your finger over until it is resting along the flat surface of the golf grip.
4. As you are navigating with your cane, you will be using your grip to navigate the cane back-and-forth, not really using the index finger however. The index finger simply rests in a relaxed state against the flat surface of the grip. This is designed to give you The best tactile feedback potential, while navigating with your cane.

I hope these directions help you to understand what we've been trying to explain to you. If not, I'm sure your mobility instructor can make things right for you. 😊👨‍🦯

If you thought my last post was exciting, let me teach you the trigger finger method I learned from one particular instructor many years ago.
I actually had an instructor try to teach me this method, and to this day, I don't understand the point of it. I know how to do it of course, but it just feels weird.
Basically, you hold your cane like a golf club, only your index finger you slightly spread away from your other fingers and curl it under the grip, letting your finger remain loose, yet curled under the handle. Think of it like you're holding a gun with one finger around the trigger. The, "trigger finger", is supposed to be where you get all of your tactile information. Like I mentioned, I can do this, but it just does not make sense to me.

Not just you. Tried with the flat bit on top yesterday for a bit and noticed that after just a short time my wrist started to feel the strain. Somewhere in this thread MR G said his wrist gets tired if I recall then later admitted he had the flat bit on top. So there seems to be a common theme on that score.

Does anybody here remember the pre-canes? They were those like plastic canes, but you held onto a two hands and they were more of a scooting motion across the floor versus the regular one handed cane. We’re going outside to side motion. They were used for all the little blind kids at least the ones in the US when I was growing up anyway we had those before we had regular canes. Now I just have the regular standard aluminum cane from Amtech with the golf grip in the marshmallow tip. I hate these new plastic caps that they’re putting on these marshmallow dip now though. It makes them so much harder to clean up. They’ve also added this plastic clip to the end of the record of the game. I suppose it’s supposed to make it last longer. I hope it does only have one game right now. My mobility instructors in Connecticut told me like flying out. They can’t get me a new game so with this one I don’t know I’m gonna have to buy another game. I don’t know where I’m supposed to get one from but maybe the Braille Superstore or something. But I’ll just keep the standard gain their standard colors. I don’t really want any kind of customize or anything like that. But this is why we have personal preferences even for our canes. I feel like even the techniques of holding the cane is kind of a personal preference thing. I don’t feel like there’s any right the wrong way to do it.

... but I cannot stand the marshmallow tip. As Singer Girl says, it's all preference.
Which is why I have an aluminum five section folding cane from AmbuTech, that is mostly purple, except the last section where the tip is, which is white. Oh, and of course I have a ceramic tip on mine.

I ❤️ my cane. 🤓🦯

I am trying things along those lines. I think what confuses me is that the cane is pushed mostly into my palm and it's my wrist and palm that seem to do most of the work. I typically have my thumb on the flat bit on the left, but I have also tried my index finger on top and to the right, but it always feels a bit weird.

I think the key is probably not so much about where the flat bit is, but more about how I'm applying pressure to the cane. As I said before, my wrist usually feels really strained after a short amount of caning it. I now use the lightest cane you can get and it helps so I can go out an hour and a half and it's perfectly doable. But I still feel like I am missing something. Anyway, we'll see.

And regarding the bin - in the UK we have these big tall plastic bins with wheels. They are not getting mistaken for anything other than a big hulking bin.

Here's something you could try. Completely up to you, of course. Since you mentioned you like to put your thumb on that flat part, just change your grip so the flat part is wherever your thumb is. So, if you're right handed the flat part would be on the left to match your thumb, and vice versa. And then just put your index finger along the length of the handle at the top, or if that's uncomfortable, switch it so the flat part is at the top with your thumb on it, and your index finger is along the length of the handle on the side.
It's just something to try of course. 🤷
Honestly, it's whatever works for you. I've never subscribed to the "one-size-fits-all" way of teaching that some organizations follow.
I'm looking at you NFB...
if your thumb on the flat part works for you, stick with that. 😊

I am of course referring to a garbage truck, because once a week, they are the perfect alarm clock. Consistent and reliable. 🤣

For several years, I've always stuck with the tried and true aluminum white cane. The standard colours, white and red, with the standard rubber golf grip and my personal favourite for the longest time, the rolling marshmallow tip.

After some time, I switched from aluminum to graphite, being pleased with the lighter weight, making it easier to use it out and about. I also found that with some of my graphite canes, the joints would split apart while using and found that a little annoying. Thankfully though, that was only an issue with one cane.

A few years ago, when buying a new graphite cane though, I noticed that AmbuTech tweaked the joints, adding a longer male end, preventing the joints from popping open while in use. During the same time though, decided to swap the usual tip with the ceramic tip, which I never got around to using until then. I quickly began realizing why some of my friends preferred the ceramic tip. Although my first one, the ceramic dome part fell off at some point, but after emailing AmbuTech, they quickly sent me a replacement at no charge.

I even decided to put aside the standard golf rubber grip and tried the bamboo handle, and with this recent cane purchased, ordered the wooden handle to give that one a test drive.

I do like the bamboo handle, although not sure if it's the cause, but do find the occasional little cut on the inside joint of my fingers on my right hand. So hence the wooden handle for my latest cane. I recalled a cousin of my dad having a white cane with the wooden handle, but the handle on his cane was rounded smooth.

As for mine, it's a little thicker than the bamboo one and has the same shape, with a flat side and that engraved spiral groove on the handle. Not quite the same handle that my dad's cousin had.

So far, after seeing both handles for myself, although liking them, I might revert back to the old rubber golf grip but keep the ceramic tip as I've grown accustom to it.

I know that there are other manufacturers of white canes, but I've been using AmbuTech since the day I became blind in my teenage years, that now in my 40s, I can't see myself using any other brand.

Plus, with the Canadian National Institute for the Blind (CNIB), there's a provincial program that we can use to get the cost of our canes covered, which includes the graphite one now. Just not sure if it'll cover the ceramic tip though.

Hey that's not bad! I would love to be able to pick up an AmbuTech came for the cost of a ceramic tip. 🥺

The program usually covers up to a certain percentage, but it ends up costing me about $20 to $30. I don't think the program would cover more customized canes, just the standard red/white cane with golf grip, but we can change the tip when going through the program.

I know that the program only covers the standard golf grip handle, so had to order the bamboo handle and wooden handle directly from AmbuTech, but had to pay full price though.

The next time I need a new cane, will probably go through the program again and check to see if the program would allow the ceramic tip. We'll just have to wait and see.

We do have a couple of options here in the States, but it really depends on which State you live in. Nationally, we can always get a free cane from the National Federation for the Blind (NFB) (. Personally, I don't like those canes because they are way too lightweight for my needs. But plenty of folks use them, and like them. And they are absolutely free. I believe we are eligible for a new one every six months to once a year. They are a very simple design, black foam rubber handle with a wrist strap at the end, a long white fiberglass shaft—I believe it's fiberglass—with a metal disc shaped tip.
They are a little Bendy, are also easily breakable. Again, not a personal favorite, but they are rather popular here.
Alternatively, certain State Blind Agencies will give their clients and AmbuTech cane. Typically they are as you described them, basic white with a red portion at the bottom of the shaft, and with a marshmallow tip.
These are typically folding canes, and in fact was the very first mobility cane I ever received upon losing my eyesight nearly 2 decades ago. 👌😎 🦯

I actually found that I already have a PathFinder tip but I just hadn't even realised.

It's about the same size as a normal roller tip which is what i had mistaken it for. But if you feel it properly, it does have sides that turn independently of the main ball.

It's been a while since I used a roller so it's a bit hard for me to compare it, but it did seem to glide pretty nicely over most obstacles and gave good feedback.

But it sure is heavy compared to my other tips so it's not something I can see myself using unless I do find some magic solution to my wrist problems. It is also only going to be suitable for constant touch.

If I lived in a different type of housing, I would go back to the roller ball. Those were amazing. Never used a Pathfinder tip so I can't say whether or not I would like them. Sadly I live in a high-rise apartment building, and the rollerball would end up smacking against my neighbors doors. I already have to be careful with my ceramic tip as that, too, has occasionally smacked one or more of my neighbors doors once or thrice. 😇